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Finding incredibly talented artists, who aren't the people you needed them to be. by BlueNire

Okay, so I overdid the title a bit.

Here, let me try to explain this a bit better.
So, imagine this.

You're a huge fan of a certain artist/musician who produces art/music/whatever that is absolutely amazing.
You just can't get enough of what they produce, you could even say you LOVE it.

Then you find out that, "Hey!...they have their own blog with their own thoughts on it! Great! Why not read it? It'll be a week/month/year/day before the next product comes out, right?"

Yet as you begin to read their OWN thoughts on their blogs and you begin to learn more and more about them as a person (not as an artist/musician), you begin to see that, behind that stuff you love is a person who...

Well...You find you can't relate to them AS a person.

Maybe it's even worse.

Maybe they have key moral values that conflict with your own.

Maybe you begin to realize that they are the type of person who you know would only end up hurting you if you met them in person.

Now.. Don't get me wrong.

People have full rights to have their own thoughts, their own feelings, their own morals and opinions ( as long as they're not involving a non-consenting party, or infringing on another person's basic rights.)

How do you react? Would you just shrug it off, and focus solely on their end products? or would knowing what you know about them discolor their end products for you, no matter their brilliance and beauty?

Just in case that was still a bit confusing, here's a specific example for me personally.

The comic-strip, "Dilbert".

I used to LOVE "Dilbert". I loved reading the comics and I found them absolutely hilarious.
Then I found out he was a bit of a misogynist and said some...pretty horrible things about women....not nice things at all..nope....

Suddenly, I couldn't laugh at his comics anymore.

They were all tainted now, through my eyes. Even the comics that I'd laughed at before, I would look back on them and wonder..."how did I ever think this was funny?"

A large part of me feels like this is an illogical/overemotional character flaw on my part and that I should just be able to separate the artist's end products from the person behind the art, shouldn't I?

Maybe I react the way I do because of the weird way I "see" people. I "see", or experience people, not as "that girl with the green hat" but by a set of "emotional portraits" of them, based on what I've learned about them, or how they interact with me.
Examples:

Sally there? She makes me feel like crooked smiles, 60s music, a sharp wit, morbid humor, and terribly corny inside jokes. Girly perfumes, those funny "snort-giggles", bad puns, and sweet coffee breath...etc...

Mr Wilson over there? Anxiety, stress...he reminds me of a sexually frustrated raging bull on a chain, and a feeling of that kind of guilt that you know you shouldn't be feeling. He reminds me of thankless work, and of stale, cheap cigarettes...etc..

Anyone else experience this too?

Is it "wrong" to be this way with artists/musicians?? Is there a way to learn how to separate your enjoyment of the artist/musician/creator's products, from what you learn about them as a person?

I may not respond to all your responses, but I promise I ALWAYS read them all and I'd love to hear your opinions/responses! <3

Finding incredibly talented artists, who aren't the people you needed them to be.

BlueNire

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  • Link

    it's just my own 2 cents and just throwing in my opinion on this but it's everything but illogical. It's really hard to differentiate something you love as a product from the "mastermind" behind it. But, it's not impossible and just because you don't like the person behind something that shouldn't mean that you can't enjoy their music/movies/art/etc anymore. I have a couple people and artists like that myself too but I always remind myself that i'm not here for the person - i'm here for their art/music. Which, to a level, makes my days better, makes me laugh, etc.
    i think that should be the thing that matters...but. it's just my opinion :)

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    I feel the same actually. Even when I was in art school (that was before I did sociology/gender studies), I was surrounded by people with mad talent and skills, but a lot of them had crap ethics and mentality, and the art school doesn't teach you how to fix that. I'm not much of a fanboy so I don't always dig up informations about the person's personal informations, opinions and whatnot, but when I do and find out they're sexists, racists, transphobic or anything, it tends to be a real deal-breaker to me. Yeah artists are just humans like the rest of us, with all their flaws; I just tend to stray away from people with questionable ethics, in my life, and when I can that applies to content I see/listen to as well. What I'm guilty of is more that I don't always dig up to find out about what the person's really like, when I just don't have the spoons (energy and mental health) to deal with it. Sometimes I just want to enjoy the media :/ it's hard though.

  • Link

    I admit it's a lot easier for me to separate the creator from the creation if they've been dead for a good while. :) Sometimes it's hard, but I do try to remind myself that people are complex -- I think of Whitman's lines:

    Do I contradict myself?
    Very well then . . . . I contradict myself;
    I am large . . . . I contain multitudes.

    I can understand feeling a certain amount of taint or discomfort, though. To me there's also the question of how much of their attitude comes through in their work. If the only way I knew about whatever it was that bothered me was from some political post on their blog or some offhand tweet or something, that's far easier for me to dismiss as another facet of their personality/worldview than something that winds up revealing an undercurrent running through their work that I just never saw before.

    I also wonder if it's easier to live with distasteful aspects of people in some creative fields over others. For example, actors, who are obviously playing roles, instead of artists or writers, who tend to be thought of as working from singular personal visions.

    From the creator's point of view, I'd like to think that my own work reflects the better parts of myself, but being human, I'm sure that isn't always the case. :) And I would hate to think that someone would decide not to read my fiction just because of, say, some political thing I retweeted or whatever, that they disagreed with or didn't like. But in the end, that's their choice. (Which gets into another aspect, whether those of us who create things should keep quiet on potentially controversial things so as not to offend potential customers/readers/whoever. For myself, I try to keep it to a minimum, but at some point I know I can't hide my entire worldview on what's right or wrong, or whatever, even if I try to.)

  • Link

    I've had my share of experiences like this, and I don't really think it's wrong to have your opinion change because of how the person behind the work really is. Sure, if they turn out not to be the wonderful person you thought they were, it can ruin their work for you. An example of this for me is Martin Freeman after I found out he was a jerk and called Lucy Liu a dog... I could never bring myself to watch The Hobbit (though I loved the LOTR trilogy) or to watch BBC Sherlock after I found out about him.

    I guess, if you're a big enough fan to be able to look past whatever it is, you CAN separate it. I have on a few occasions. You just have this nag at the back of your head sometimes about the person behind it all.

    I can't say I view people in emotional portraits, not until I've met them and gotten to know them a bit, at least. Everyone to me is a blank whiteboard with a couple of assumptions stuck on it in dry erase marker after I talk to them a little bit. No major assumptions, just trying to guess what kind of things they might like so I can think of questions to ask. Example: After talking to Kelly, I think she might like cartoons and punk rock. So I ask Kelly something like "Do you watch cartoons?" "Do you like Punk Rock?" Turns out Kelly likes cartoons and doesn't like punk rock. So both get erased, except "likes cartoons" is now re-written in permanent marker. I suppose my way of seeing people is like a personal whiteboard or a corkboard. You put stuff on, you take stuff off, you have photos pinned up and stuff that stays on there forever.

  • Link

    I think knowing someone's personality can give a work of theirs like almost a different perspective for you. You see things you may not have noticed before, and notice them in a big way which might not be a good thing. The "bad" traits you might see in their personal you might start to see being reflected in their work which you may not have noticed before or just not seen it that way, which in turn could make them unappealing to you. like for your own example Dilbert. a joke before may have been laughable but say that sam joke, after seeing how he is as a person could be changed into something distasteful just by looking at it a different way/ in a new perspective.

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    i personally cannot enjoy a person's work if i cannot see myself getting along with them. ie if they are a misogynist, a racist, etc. i can get along with most people so it's rarely an issue, but there have been a few furry artists i've had to unfollow because i could not handle their 'morality' (or lack thereof).

  • Link

    For me, it definitely taints the art. Most of the time, if it's just a conflict of personalities or differing opinions, I can overlook it, but it will never quite be the same. If they say something offensive, however, and are unapologetic when confronted, I will drop them like a hot potato. And I have unfollowed (and avoided, if I know about them before I see the work) many an artist for an offensive journal or comment they posted.

  • Link

    First and foremost as an artist I sort of know that other artists (be they traditional, digital or musical) are just regular people too and potential products of the world around them.

    Howver.

    Once I find out somebody is... very unpleasant, it taints their work for me. A prime example is I used to enjoy the BBC version of Sherlock and the newer Dr Who until I found out that a lot of what Moffat (the writer for a lot of them) had to say in regards to women was... utterly horrible. Really, really horrible. Hell even the Hobbit movies have been stained a bit because of the guy who plays Bilbo.

    Artists, there are many I can no longer watch or support. Some of them have been a huge inspiration to me over the years and it really hurt me to see them imply the things they did. Even if the red flags were /there/ to begin with.

    Anyway, long story short, I'm pretty much the same way. I can't really attach to something knowing that the mind behind it really does not like people like me or my friends for reasons beyond our control.

  • Link

    Keeping it short I have to admit there's been a lot of artists who I admired and looked up to, that I quickly found myself wanting nothing to do with the moment I had access to their daily thoughts and words. It sucks because in the cases of some of these artists I actually got to know them IRL, spent time with them, hung out and had a great time with them, but after I guess 'getting to know them better' through their own words and actions I just found they weren't anyone I wanted to associate with.

    I'm always kind of torn because I really don't like thinking poorly of people, like I want to like people, so I tend to go back and see their blogs again, see if anythings changed, but I always pretty much get met with the same disappointment and the same gross things being said and it just sort of becomes this vicious cycle of really wanting to like a person but just not being able to.

  • Link

    I can relate, tho so far I've encountered very few cases where the person behind the art has "ruined" the said art for me. Partly because I've never been too interested in reading or watching their personal lives (music artists for example).
    But if I do happen to find out that the person behind their work is, well, simply put, kind of a dick, it does taint the whatever they ever made. It doesn't matter that it is unrelated to whatever I found out about them, it just ruins it.

    I suppose it's natural reaction? If we know an unpleasant person we probably can't find their jokes funny, or anything they say too interesting/pleasant, even if it would be in a situation where we didn't know them yet.

  • Link

    I simply don't support anyone who "very loudly" supports any form of bigotry. If I'm supporting them and they support bigotry... it just feels like I'm inadvertently supporting the bigotry that I face.

  • Link

    I feel in some respects more than others, reading someone's opinions online is like reading their diary. And frankly, no one should read everyone's diary, especially those of friends. I think we put too much "out there" in a medium where subtleties are lost, where we can be too frank, where we can be influenced by ourselves when we read or write. If creating a work, this is fine, if simply pouring out our thoughts... well. After much anguish I myself dislike trying to get to know 'friends' via the internet. I try not to put myself out there either. I have said things, but when people try to say they agree with me and repeat back what they took away it seems a completely different thing. It disquiets me to think some people have taken away from my body-positivity "yeah I hate those skinny bitches too!" (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! hell no I'd never say that!) - but they read what they wanted to, and now believe I am that kind of person.

    It is perspective, always - "there is no truth, only perspective" - yeah I agree with that.

    I did stumble on a clip on Tumblr where a musical artist took snippets of what people had said to him (taped as vocal recordings) and remixed them from sentence fragments ("you should do this", "why aren't you like this, you fake!?" etc) down to "we don't know you" and that's....truth. You know what you feel when you look at someone's creation, but to say you know them is something else. I would not dare, even if told, to presume I know that I am feeling exactly like someone else. Joy and pain registers differently, so the same is true for emotions.

    I do not want to know 'who' my favorites are most of the time. I am content with my experience, and knowing that is not the whole. Some people are super huge fans of someone and got to know everything, but really... I know I could never know everything so... I guess, what I'm saying is, yes it's disappointing to find out someone you admire sucked in some way. But I suck in some ways, so the disappointment is really just.. life. People. The perspective and human folly.

    I probably sound like a depressing twat which is alright I guess, I can't stop someone from hating what they read in my words, because it's sorta like... I let those words like birds fly away. Some will shit on someone and make them very cross, others may fly into people's faces and make them get into an accident, while others yet may sing and please an ear. I have the ability to create, but not force how it is perceived (also a reason I despise when 'modern art' needs an artist's statement to 'explain' it :/)

  • Link

    Oh yeah, I relate to this a lot. I made a journal kind of related to that recently, in fact- it was a discussion about how H.P. Lovecraft had some horrific personal beliefs.

    I've had this happen to me a few times with artists I like, too. Sometimes it's a webcomic author I admire, sometimes it's an artist on here. I'm a very stubborn person, so I find it difficult sometimes to not get angry when there are people I disagree with. If I find an artist is very opinionated about something I find upsetting, usually I'll step back and remove myself from it. Unfollowing personal tumblrs and just watching art tumblrs, or unchecking the option to see journals here on Weasyl.

    Sometimes it does get to that point though where I find the person so abominable I can never enjoy their work again. Sometimes it's because they have really abhorrent personal beliefs, but funnily enough it's almost always because they rub me the wrong way? Haha. Someone being an asshole is like the #1 guarantee I will never watch their work again, happened to me with the dude who makes the webcomic The Meek.

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    It's really difficult to extricate an artist from their work. In some cases, one can overlook the problematic nature of a person's personality if the art is good, like in some visual arts, especially if the subject matter steers clear of the problematic points, but in some cases, once you see the issue, you can see it anywhere. You find someone is misogynist and suddenly those jokes in their comic about women are disgusting and no longer funny because you know the person behind them means to belittle people.

    Though honestly, if I find someone has morals I find to be disgusting, I can't honestly enjoy much of their work again, even if it is not of the subject, because the way I see an artist colors how I view their work.

    Also, I second RottenBite's sentiment. If I find someone supporting things I advocate against, I can't support them, even morally, by 'consuming' their media, because it feels like I'm fighting against my own causes, even in a small way.

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    I can separate the art from the artist easily enough, but it's difficult for me to explain how. I guess I just know that the work is fiction and the artist isn't automatically doing the things they depict in the art.

    There are some times when I won't support the artist because of things they do in real life though. For instance is if an artist is doing lots of tracing and is unrepentant about it, I'll unwatch them out of principle. If I know them to be more trouble than they're worth, I'll block them. If a whole bunch of people say bad things about the artist in question but I personally don't know either way, I'll base my judgments upon the quality of their art.

    Also, I tend to be more forgiving of an artist even if I know they're doing something or supporting something I don't support, if in my view the 'bad' thing they're doing is of a lesser degree of 'bad.' I mean, if someone's just a general dick or difficult to get along with, or even somewhat racist, I'll be more forgiving than if they were stalking others, or an active member of the KKK or Black Panthers, and so on.

    But all that said, that's how I do things. I don't think for a moment that my way is the only right way. We each have our own priorities that we judge people by, and so I don't think there is any "right" or "wrong" way to judge others. If you can't like Dilbert anymore, that's truly your call and your call only. It's not mine or anyone else's to make for you.

  • Link

    I do it too. I recently commissioned a piece not knowing much about the person, but really liked her art. Now, as I wait for my piece to be done I've checked her journals and have come to not like the person as much as the artist. I do it with actors, authors and businesses too. My money is supporting them so if I don't agree with their ideas/morals I don't like supporting them.

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    Same for me here. I love reading Stephen Kings books and have quite the collection. But a few weeks ago I found out hes misogynistic and called a girl "bitchy" because she spoke out about a famous person being abusive towards her. I was pretty shocked, and it makes his works less attractive... I have a sour feeling in my stomach supporting a person like that with my hard-earned money. Its a little sad.

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    I remember experiencing this at 19, with a band and an animation studio. I was disillusioned to say the least, and it didn't help my existential crisis at the time. At first I concluded - 'Familiarity breeds contempt' and 'be your own hero' - but is that fair? those people didn't ask me to put them on a pedestal, and also what good would it do to put myself in a position where I needed to be faultless?
    I've now gotten to the point where I either avoid any personal info about artists I admire (musically, visually etc.) to avoid the frustration, or just accept their faults..and accept my own too.
    TL;DR - Nobody's perfect, everyone makes mistakes, don't beat yourself up for being disappointed. I'm bad at putting my thoughts into words.