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Tree "cloning" by insanejoker

http://maple.dnr.cornell.edu/kids/reproduction.htm

Super awesome. I love plants, and I want to try this one day.

Tree "cloning"

insanejoker

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    Oh my god I love plants.

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    Apple trees will end up with the apples tasting all different unpredictable ways if grown from seeds, if I remember right. They grow them from cuttings like that to get a predictable flavor, again if I remember right.

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      I /think/ also that seeds from the same apple-fruit can end up producing all different flavors of apples.

      The issue with cloning the trees like this is a reduction in disease resistance. Same for any clone, far as I know.

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        I imagine the grafts might be vulnerable to diseases that the host it is grafted to, is not.

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          and vice versa

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            Oh dear - I saw an apple tree infected with insects. The bark was peeling, more than half of it was dead, and there were little trails / paths where the bugs ate under the bark. I will keep in mind their disease resistance goes down. :( I will keep this in mind if I ever try this or know someone who is so we can prep for preventive measures. Thank you!

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              Those are probably some kind of wood borer beetles/larva. There is a residual apple orchard on the farm here over in that area I call the Place of Death where's I'd made that bone shrine. The rest of the woods is growing up through it now. Those trees have been hanging on for decades at this point. There's a couple other apple trees scattered here and there. The bugs really infest the apples on them, or nibble on them -- probably would need sprayed tended to to avoid that. The deer like them. I also only remember them being little deformed apples. The commercial apples I'm fairly sure are clone trees. If you wanted good apples for eating you'd probably need clones or you wouldn't know what kind of fruit you were going to get. If you were growing them to make some kinda wine out of I don't think it would matter as much, but I am not sure.

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              Also the lack of disease resistance in clones is due, far as I remember, to a large number of genetically identical individuals making a population, such that if a disease develops that affects one, it affects all. If other creatures in the ecosystem, like insects or parasites, are combining their genes and adapt to better feed on the trees, the clone trees are not able to do the same. So the ecological arms race is in favor of the sexually reproducing organisms. One way to deal with this to some degree, in some (most?) plant and animal crop/livestock species, is to breed hybrids. Pure bred dog breeds that have little genetic diversity also fall prey to disease or genetic problems after a while.

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                Also if you are curious to know what kind of bug was nomming though those trees, I'd start by looking up something like "apple borer"

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                  Thank you so much for the info! I'm going to look into that. :) I forgot about how cloning effects living things (such as will Dolly who had some issues with health because she was a clone). Thank you again. I'm going to do some research into the apple borer.

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                    o7

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                    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloning#Organism_cloning

                    "The term clone is used in horticulture to refer to descendants of a single plant which were produced by vegetative reproduction or apomixis. Many horticultural plant cultivars are clones, having been derived from a single individual, multiplied by some process other than sexual reproduction.[13] As an example, some European cultivars of grapes represent clones that have been propagated for over two millennia. Other examples are potato and banana.[14] Grafting can be regarded as cloning, since all the shoots and branches coming from the graft are genetically a clone of a single individual, but this particular kind of cloning has not come under ethical scrutiny and is generally treated as an entirely different kind of operation."

                    potatoes and bananas have both had problems... certain cultivars of bananas I read a few years ago were having issues.Apparently, a type of banana that was popular in the past is now extint or far less widespread -- I got the impresion that the bananna referred to in any literature of the time is actually a different banana than we commonly eat today. In the grocery stores around here there are typically 4 kinds of banana, the commonly eaten iconic yellow type, the plantains, these little bitty guys, and red bananas. Its the iconic yellow sort that is having the problem. Can't remember what it is -- probably a disease, might ahve been fungal.

                    I think the Great Irish Potato Famine was probably also related to this lack of genetic diversity thing.

                    "The proximate cause of famine was a potato disease commonly known as potato blight."
                    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Famine_%28Ireland%29

                    "The highlands of central Mexico is considered by many to be the center of origin of P. infestans, although others have proposed its origin in the Andes, which is also the origin of potatoes.[8][9] Migrations from Mexico to North America or Europe have occurred several times throughout history, probably linked to the movement of tubers."

                    Movement of infected crops is a major cause of parasitic/pathogen invasive species dispersal. This is why moving fire wood from one state to another is a /terrible/ idea, and why crop inspectors come to look at a farmers' crops to check for infestations of problem species. If the crops is trees, in a nursery or orchard, the nearby/edge of nearby woods are also checked for pests.

                    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potato_blight

                    "Breeding for resistance, particularly in potato, has had limited success in part due to difficulties in crossing cultivated potato to its wild relatives, which are the source of potential resistance genes."

                    "Many old crop varieties, such as King Edward potato are also very susceptible but are grown because they are wanted commercially."

                    "New varieties such as Sarpo Mira and Sarpo Axona show great resistance to blight even in areas of heavy infestation."
                    New. Probably the disease has not addapted to better feed on them.

                    "Researchers have found the wild potato species Solanum verrucosum to resist the late blight disease. They aim to make cultivated potatoes resistant to late blight by crossing the wild, resistant strain with the vulnerable, cultivated strain."

                    Here is the bottom line, and why genetic diversity in food crops is extremely important:

                    "Implicated in Ireland's fate was the island's disproportionate dependency on a single variety of potato, the Irish Lumper. The lack of genetic variability created a susceptible host population for the organism."

                    However, there are a wide variety of food crops currently available to anyone wanting to grow their own.

                    Also, going back to the cloning article: "Parthenogenesis"

                    I had some stick insects that as a species, almost entirely reproduced by Parthenogenesis. The ones I had were female clones, and most of their species were females.

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                      Very interesting. I do know the bananas we eat today are nowhere near a real banana. They're definitely cultivated for their appearance and taste, and easy holding. Wild bananas look a bit gross because of the black seeds inside them. Most people can't be bothered to deal with seeds in fruit, which is why I think seedless watermelons are so popular (which is dumb). I know the yellow bananas are at risk to banana spiders (brazillian wandering spider).

                      I wonder if people can put aside how 'gross' some naturally grown foods look, if we can start allowing fruits and vegetables to 'breed' normally to help increase resistant to infectious bugs and diseases?