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some advice to artists that take commissions- by ali
okay so i don't know it kind of concerns me that a lot of people both here, da, wzl, fa, etc don't really know?? like?? basic artist etiquette... people aren't perfect but i see people do things you shouldn't be doing on a daily basis.
doing these things is a surefire way to lose business- doing them repeatedly pretty much guarantees it after a while. so here's just some.. advice? i guess?
1. DON'T. SPEND. YOUR CUSTOMERS. MONEY.
seriously, if you ask for payment up front? your customers are trusting you to not steal from them (yes, you ARE stealing from them) by paying you up front and the moment you spend that money and can't give it back to them, you break that trust and it deters people from commissioning you in the future. and for me, oopsies doesn't cut it, it shows you aren't responsible enough, or have enough willpower to resist buying yourself something tempting- it definitely shows a lack of professionalism which is one thing a lot of commissioners seek from artists, because after all, you are handling their money.
if you have a backup method, that's fine! i myself don't have much in my actual paypal a lot of the time, but i could supply refunds from my bank account if i needed to. if you don't have a backup source, you shouldn't be spending the money you haven't actually EARNED yet.
2. DON'T TAKE ON TOO MUCH WORK IF YOU CAN'T HANDLE IT, AND DON'T KEEP PILING WORK ON TOP OF WORK WHEN YOU HAVE OTHER PRIORITIES.
i know for myself i get really stressed when i have too much to do. i take 1-2 commissions a week, sometimes more if i feel i can handle it. don't give yourself enough work for more than one list, if you need a second list, there's probably a problem.
if you're comfortable and work well under those pressures, that's cool too. but if you know you can't, don't do it, it'll save you time and the headaches for both you and the commissioner, trader, whatever they may be. if you have stuff to do, get that done first before taking on more stuff! it's only logical to work through a queue that way, but different strokes for different folks, everyone works differently.
3. DON'T DO PERSONAL ART/ADOPTS IF YOU HAVEN'T EVEN TOUCHED YOUR COMMISSION QUEUE.
working on personal art is fine and dandy, but remember, people will begin to feel forgotten if you aren't on top of things and showing some sort of activity. working on other things and not once touching your to-do list lets people know that you have no interest in working on their stuff, really.
i like this method: do a commission, then do a personal work, and keep a pattern going. not only do you not have to bind yourself to your work, but you're letting people know you're getting shit done, which is good! it's like a reward system, which can also motivate instead of deter you from doing your commissions.
4. KEEP COMMUNICATION GOING- DON'T IGNORE YOUR CUSTOMERS. REPLY AS SOON AS YOU CAN.
this is something that bothers me. if you don't keep your customers aware of updates, delays, what have you, it can really ruin their chances of commissioning you in the future. if there's a problem? speak up about it. but also don't go into mega detail. no one has to know you had just attended a party and got drunk and couldn't draw, for example- keep it simple, and to the point, and keeping your customer updated at least once a week or two is always nice, just let them know you're sorry about being slow or something. people understand, we aren't machines, but you can't fall short of communication, that's what makes or breaks commissions for me, anyways.
and if someone contacts you about their commission? try to reply as soon as you can. people see the note's been read and can get antsy and feel ignored if you don't reply in a few days.
DISCLAIMER: i am not claiming to be some sort of god and claim i'm 100% right and "u should listen to me or fuck u", but just some things to think about when you take on commissions.
also of course this can go both ways in terms of commissioners and the artist but this is mainly for artists
also don't be a dick in general when doing commissions either
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YEP. BASICALLY. #1 and #3 especially for me pretty much determines if i'll commission them again or not 8I
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Agreed! #1 especially for me - I've actually seen artists use the excuse of already spending the money/having no money left as an excuse for not refunding (and in some cases, never refunding).
I like your method of doing a commission, do personal art, then commission and so forth. Good way not to burn yourself out or worry your commissioners I think.
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this is just good courtesy
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you'd think so but a lot of people actually kind of ignore these things 6___6
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It's nice that I already do this. I also only accept payment after sketch and the only time I even spend the money before finishing is if something comes up. I keep costumers aware of anything that happens too but then against I feel bad if I take more than 2 weeks on a pic. xnx
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things happen, but you should also kind of have a backup plan if something DOES come up. use money from savings or something, keep that and your commission money separate?
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Oh yeah that's usually what we do, it's really only when shit happens and I am sure it's not money that I can't put back. It's really rare though, it doesn't happen too often thankfully since we manage money very well and don't take too many commissions at once. Although atm Im at a commission dry since no one is commissioning anyhow. But yeah, I never let it be to the point that would cause problems, I think I would be even more stressed about finishing a commission and making the costumer happy if I did. I don't even know how some people do it like that.
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Amen. All of my concerns right here.
The pay up front method scares me as a commissioner, because there goes my money that I have a chance to lose in an instant. I like the half and half method... Pay half, show half of the progress (with the biggest water-mark), pay the rest, get the finished result... Gives motivation and both people get what they want. It does not always happen, but it should be a guarantee... or a waste of money (commissioner) and time (artist)..
Not only that but...Paypal... Oh Paypal. Such an easy and nice way to send/give money back and forth. But such an easy way to scam people. Paying for Goods/Services vs Sending money to family/friends. This whole argument is about the little tax that either person has to pay. Though either way, someone can get screwed. Either artist (if the commissioners pays for service...which technically it is? Right?) has to pay the tax and if the commissioner is twit can file a dispute to try and get the money back.... OR the commissioner (chooses sending money) has to pay the tax and cannot file a dispute if the artist has these kinds of issues within the journal, does not do the commission, and overall scams the person...they are completely screwed. (Yes, this happened to me ((YES the person did past commissions, but I ignored the tell-tale signs with year old journals and months old submissions with nothing new))...and it is recent which is why I do not bother with FA anymore besides other things).
Honestly, people just suck, you do not know who is going to screw you over...
and why I am a little bit scared of artists...-
i can see how the pay up front method is scary, but not everyone who uses it is a total scammer, so don't lump artists that have done it with people like myself, for example. it's a little bit offensive. understandable, but then you're implying because i do take payment up front, it's likely i'm going to run off with it just because other people do.
yeah, paypal is iffy. artists that ask for me to send payment as gift, i simply link them to google searches about how it's against tos and they usually are ok with me sending it as services. i haven't had anyone really bitch at me for telling them how it is, and if it does happen, well, taking my business elsewhere pretty much.. just, it's basically watching out for who is reliable before commissioning them if it's really that scary for you u0u
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I did not mean to offend nor did I imply that every artist on the internet are greedy thieves or scammers just because you want the money all right then and there. Is that not how business goes lol? Or in payments? I wished I added to my other post that I wish to see more of the half and half method because I like it because it is a lot more sensible. Because honestly I cannot say I trust you, though, how can I? Past commissions? Though the same thing can be said for me. No one can know so again, it is all thrown up in the air. It is just rare to find people who uses that method is all and I wish people did sometimes because I wonder how things would turn out for both parties.
I know, the other time was a mistake in itself and now I know to watch out better for it than slack off because this is the internet. It is hard to find people trustworthy : /
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oh no, you didn't offend me, just saying? the way you worded it could be i guess? sorry it was just hard to tell from your post ;v;
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I've got nothing against artists who ask for payment up-front (even though I'm way more comfortable getting paid when I'm ready to deliver the full finished files), but it's just common sense not to spend any of it until you've finished the work, isn't it? o _o I only accept early payment (either upfront or halfway through the commission) from commissioners I've worked with before and trust, and even then, I can't imagine touching the money until I get the finished product to them.
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it is common sense, but a lot of people openly admit to using up their customers money which needs to stop. like i said, i have a source i could just use to refund if i do spend that money, but if someone's like WHOOPS I CAN'T REFUND YOU AT ALL LOL SPENT EVERYTHING I HAD well then that's no good
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It's just good business sense to follow this stuff. I totally understand needing that money ASAP, but practicing restraint is a good idea. Restrainnntt!
I know that some people are afraid to pay upfront, but artists are afraid to accept payment later because people tend to back out or 'forget they owed something'. It's a very hard thing to deal with, and I encourage people to talk it over with an artist to see if there's some middle ground to ensure both parties aren't stressing over the money. :)
For artists, I highly recommend using invoices over sending a direct payment. It's much easier to keep track of things and puts YOU in control of the payment. It'll say who has and hasn't paid yet.
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Also want to point out: Keep a log for payments processed with transaction numbers. I have...two of them. One is like a check register for standard 'how much money is in my paypal' for earnings + what I spend it on, and the second is strictly who paid what, when, and transaction info along with paypal info. Much easier to find in the event a refund is due. Look up the trans# with that person's username, find it in paypal, and click 'refund'. yay!
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it defs is, but you'd be surprised at how many people openly admit to these things like it's no big deal when it really is and will affect their business eventually 8I
yeah i can see that, i dunno, if people really are wary of me, i'll do a sketch first and then accept payment, but i always as for it up front because of those reasons, it's haaard
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Oh! Can you tell me how is it against tos? I did not know that! Would love to look into it.
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oops i might've mistyped something-
sending as gift basically means that because of the tos you can't get that payment back if the aritst decides to scam you
what is against tos is making people cover fees by using the gift method- the artist is supposed to lose a bit because of the fee, the buyer isn't supposed to cover it. so basically when an artist asks you to send as a gift, not only are you violating the tos, but if they deicde to run away with your money, you can't file chargebacks.
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Ah. Yeah. I mean linking the tos itself if possible? Sorry about that, mistyped that bit as well.
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uhhhh i don't?? actually know where that is
just i saw posts about it and people linking and breaking it down.... you should probs just google it-
Ah! Okay, sorry.
And sorry for all the new posts, was on my phone and it would not reply to any of your posts and let making new ones without me knowing until I looked.-
no need to apologize uvu the tos is rly lengthy so just googling will give you excerpts and people discussing them and breaking it down, and it's ok!
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1 drives me NUTS. I had to break that rule when I was doing collab commissions with someone. They spent their half, I only expected to have to pay back my half if things needed to be refunded, and a refund came! I STILL feel like shit about it. I'm glad I've been able to build up a bit of a savings, and cay pay back any refund that may come my way now! These are all good rules.
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Totally yes to all this!
As an artist who does commissions, I simply can't wrap my head around how others think it's acceptable to spend the money before they do the work. It should be common sense. Don't spend the money because you never know what's going to explode. Either in your life, or your client's. I ask for payment up front, but never spend it until after the client has approved the finished product. Even to that point there could be a partial refund needed. Sometimes that's hard, but I still don't spend it.
Don't have anything to add to the other points, but I totally agree to them all. :) -
To me, an artist should also (all hat I say is from my personnal experience)
1/ Send a first sketch giving a global idea of their understanding of the commission details you sent them so the commissionner can ask for modifications.
2/ Stay at the sketch phase a long as the customer isn't satisfied with it and do as many modifications as the customer asks. But if you want to set up a limit, be VERY CLEAR about it (I totally understand that an artist doesn't want to spend weeks on a sketch).About 1 and 2 : some of the artists I've commissionned just took my money and sent me a finished drawing without letting me approve at least a basic sketch. In that case, I've been unsatisfied most of the time. Sometimes, the commission wasn't even what I've asked for. It is very frustrating, especially when 3 comes to be true.
3/ Once the commission is finished, if your customer is unsatisfied with some details (especially when it comes to the painting and colors), do the F-ING modifications without even moaning or asking for some extra money. Answer their notes, don't ignore them like them will just get bored, eventually.
About 3 : Sometimes, even with a sketch approval step in the commission process, the finished piece wasn't what I've asked for. Most of the time, it was just about coloring (even though I think that my color scheme isn't that hard to reproduce) but sometimes it was more about anatomical details, species switch and so on. Some artists just refused to do the modifications, some even just read my demands (something I know thanks to FA note system) but didn't even answer my PM...
4/ Same thing when it comes that your personnal life is interfering with your work : either refund your customer or at least try to give some update (no need to be specific)
About 4 : My mate have asked for a commission like more than a year earlier but the artist had some personnal issues and stopped to post for several months. She did post a journal explaining the situation when it started, but when she came back, posting many drawings on FA/Weasyl, she kept not answering any PM. A sketch was done and the money was taken and today, still no update on this commission...
I've established some kind of a trustworthy artists list in my head but I guess it would be kinda disrespectful to share it on the public place... Because after all, all of it is just a question of RESPECT. Artists may ask for respect but have to respect back their customers...
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THank YOU
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i don't take payments upfront so i don't have to stress out on the first point haha. i used to take payments upfront but it only lead that i just took forever to draw the pictures for some reason. now i don't want to risk it and it's easier to just cancel (on the customers part) if they don't want the commission anymore etc.
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those're some of my golden rules right there ( ' v ')
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As a commissioner, I have paid up front then lost money when the artist began selling things to others, producing the, and had "forgotten" about my work, only to accuse me of being a bad commissioner when I finally did a paypal charge back to get my message across. I have also just lost money when people never bothered to produce the works they promised me. Worse yet, in some respects, I have purchased art from an artist who's style I admire, seen nothing from them for two months, then been handed the completed piece which is so full of flaws it is not even worth putting out there as a picture of my character (missing all of the piercings that were stated, for example, or with a color that is COMPLETELY OFF). When I get pieces like that from those artists, I lose some respect for them, and quietly add them to a personal list of artists whom I will never commission again.I don't give their names or the like, but will never give them my hard earned money again.
Another issue that I am dealing with at this moment is "mysterious life issues". In which, the trusting faeoori pays upfront, waits for a month then gently asks what it up after a whole month has gone by, only to be informed that ' the hard drive with your art crashed, I'll send an update as soon as it is fixed' or 'I'm sorry, I've gotten so busy with work and school that I have not had the time (though the person had time to do gift art and art trades.)
As a commissioner, I try to uphold certain standards. I always try to be polite, and encouraging, and t give the artists plenty of time and wiggle room. I try to include an abundance of details when I am asking for something in particular, or to accept the artist impression if I am purchasing something more open ended.There are times, though, that I feel some artists just walk all over me, because they have the talents that I lack. I love purchasing commissions. I enjoy having art of my characters, but it is sad that there are perhaps only a small number of artists that I have used more than once because their style suits my character, and more importantly because they were a pleasure to work with and produced beautiful art in a timely manner.
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That was very helpful to read!
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UGHHHH, THAT I-CAN-SEE-THAT-YOU-READ-MY-NOTE-AND-JUST-HAVEN'T-BOTHERED-TO-RESPOND-TO-IT CRAP. OH MY FUGGIN' GOD. Like, I CAN SEE THAT YOU'VE READ IT! If you simply don't respond, I KNOW! I KNOW THAT YOU'RE JUST IGNORING ME! Not even in a commission setting but a communication standpoint in general! I CAN SEE THAT SHIT. LIKE OMFG. It drives me insane! I've had so many people literally READ MY NOTES and just NOT RESPOND. And then I feel like, "Shit, did I see something that offended them?", and then that transitions into, "or maybe they're just dicks!" and then I get angry! I CANNOT EVEN GBDJKFBJDKLS
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THANK YOU.
Seriously it's very concerning that so many artists do these things and just don't give a shit?? :/