Sign In

Close
Forgot your password? No account yet?

transmasculine erasure? in MY trans support group? by ritualnoise

CW: abuse, csa, sexual assault mentions

drags hands down face

so, the place i go for therapy is called the women's center. they offer many services for low-income women, including help with resumes, job searching and general computer access, and a clothes closet where you can look at donates business attire. they also offer sliding scale cost therapy and support groups for topics that typically deal with women, such as sexual assault, childhood abuse/incest, domestic violence, self-esteem workshops, and groups for people whose spouses are away in the military.
but they do not discriminate, based on sex, who they offer these services to. despite what it is called, male and male-identifying victims are welcome to attend groups and seek counseling. my therapist even treats abusers who are committed to no longer being abusive and changing conditioned habits that make them abusers.
so someone in the facebook group for the transgender group i attend posted a call from the women's center for a trans focus group and that all genders under the trans umbrella, from mtf, ftm, gq, gf, agender, etc were invited to participate regardless of their assigned sex at birth.
and someone through a fucking bitchfit about how dare they include men. which i thought they meant cis men. so i told them they're one of the VERY FEW places in my area that offers counseling for low-income people. where i could only see a therapist for a total of 16 sessions with my insurance, i can go every week with the women's center. and being low income and being a victim is NOT FEMALE SPECIFIC. in fact, the erasure of male domestic violence victims, assault victims, etc is a HUGE feminist issue.
2 weeks goes by and during that time i bring it up to my therapist who is in full agreement with me. she stated how important it is that men who are victims have a place to go, and that she is happy to have them in her domestic violence group and csa group. she was just as pissed as i was that someone would insinuate that these services were only needed by women.
so we cut to tonight, 2 weeks later, and they comment again, now calling out the 'regardless of sex assignment at birth' thing and how it is transmisogynist to include men in a feminist space.
and my mind just broke.
like, i am hard pressed to think of a AFAB trans person who hasn't experienced some sort of systemic female oppression and can't contribute to that conversation? especially if they don't fully pass, either because they choose not to or cannot afford to. and why the FUCK are you in a trans group if you're going to say that a focus group for trans people that includes transmasculine people for a place called 'the women's center' IS TRANSMISOGYNISTIC???? like are you seriously so blind to what transmasculine people deal with that we suddenly get lumped in with cis men? that by transitioning we suddenly come into absolute power and are impervious to harm and completely forget our experiences as being AFAB before transitioning??? so it's okay to allow cismale allies to attend our meetings, and that's cool, but offering services to an actual undeserved community of men or including them in a discussion that relates to their experiences, is transmisogynistic???

just... i lost my cool in my message to them but not as bad as the cool i lost in my head. the erasure of male victims already pisses me off to no end, but to suddenly discount transmasculine people from a discussion open for all trans people is just fucking disgusting. i should be sleeping because i need to get up for my eye appointment super early but just... FUCK. why is this person not banned? why is this person HERE? i just can't believe this and i'm thoroughly disgusted that this person is here saying this shit in what's supposed to be an inclusive environment and 'safe place' for trans people. ALL trans people.

transmasculine erasure? in MY trans support group?

ritualnoise

Journal Information

Views:
371
Comments:
8
Favorites:
0
Rating:
General

Comments

  • Link

    that's messed up :C

    • Link

      bluh yeah. but i guess not unheard of. but reading what hareteeth wrote down below, and having it put into perspective like that, i guess i'm not that surprised.

  • Link

    I actually (usually but not always, def not always) find that trans*people have a unique perspective on social norms and mores as pertaining to gender. Since if they've transitioned and pass or even pass in general they've often seen both sides of that coin and the folks I've talked to usually have some very interesting insight on expectations and behavior men and women have. Missed opportunity on their part :(

    I could honestly whine about this subject forever lol.
    Hopefully stuff gets better there for you. Gosh.

    • Link

      eh. i actually had a small panic because their face looked familiar so i thought they were on the board for the group, but they're not listed. since it's a university group, it doesn't meet during the summer, so i may just leave the group and not attend in fall. i probably won't have time, anyway. after that, i won't be a student, so it's not like there's a big loss there. it was just nice to have that extra boost to my support network and at the meetings themselves, i've never had any issues with people. so i'm just... not sure where this was coming from. and i admit, my response was a little heated, but not real argumentative, and they were just entirely dismissive. they didn't want to hear it. to which i say you don't get services here, you don't do anything with the center, so why the fuck do you care? if they want to let men into a supposed 'feminist space' (which i guess means cis and transfemale people only???) then that's their business. if you don't support that, then don't go. the rest of us need this place and support what their doing, including the people who work there and provide these services. so... shrug

      • Link

        Pretty much that last bit. lol
        I could definitely see how transmen in a female space could be arguably problematic, but reading the issue you've presented I don't really think that was ever an issue in this particular place.
        But some people wanna kick up mud for the sake of it. At least you won't have to deal with them in any sort of personal way ;)
        And I'm glad there's an all trans* inclusive place somewhere out there.

        • Link

          yeah exactly. i agree, i can see how in some cases it can be problematic, but i don't see how in this instance. like, at all. like, all it was was a focus group. they were pretty vague on what it was about (but free lunch!), so it didn't even specifically say they were looking to provide services for transmasculine people. i don't know. given the information presented, i don't know why they decided to armchair critique something they really have no vested interest in. but some people just do that, like you said.

  • Link

    truuth. now, trans masc folks can be hella problematic irt misogyny etc -- but that's the work of toxic masculinity + internalized misogyny combining in a haze of gender dysphoria ... ie trans men etc refusing to look beyond and internally at systemic things without relating it to their gender & trangst.
    But I say all that to put it aside, b/c I've noticed a predominate swing in a lot of trans-inclusive/focused feminism that pushes down ftm-directional transitioners as just "bad", mocking them conceptually as clueless 1-demensional "Jayden/Aden/Kaydens" who have no right to talking about their experiences living as women or participating in spaces/discussions for trans ppl. A lot of those folks seem to think trans men (& masc-presenting gq/g+ ppl) "take up too much space" and "have too many resources"...which...y'know. scoff. In the past 10 years there's been a lot more vocal and obvious networks developed by/for trans men, more trans men are rejecting self-erasure (blending in as cis b/c they can), and becoming outspoken about community-erasure (which has a loooot to do with anti-women ideologies, intimately linked histories with the women's movement, the lesbian movement, and the ways being AFAB makes one automatically uninteresting to a cisheteropatriarchy) ...and, just generally making themselves more known....plus there's now a rise in nonbinary discourse, which for years was locked in a "white academic women reject femininity" paradigm, so genderqueerness conceptually has a link with many AFAB ppl's understanding of their feminist objectives & let's not forget how trans women and homophobic cis men colluded to erase AMAB genderqueerness by delineating no space for it to exist, historically; but it's AFAB nbs who get chided for "pushing out, taking up too much room" from AMAB nbs (sometimes deserved, but...)

    All to say, yeah, I see that a lot, ppl really mad about AFAB trans ppl existing and presenting masculine && using that presentation as a reason to shut out our voices from relevant discussions && using our recent collective empowerment to scapegoat us + the masc presentation as a shield to deflect any way they could be called sexist for making fun of or dismissing the concerns of female-assigned ppl in a culture that constantly shuts down female-attributed ppl. The things they say and do would be CLEARLY problematic if they did them to trans women, but b/c we hold aloft the gender binary even in our discourses about the failures of a binary and the collective harm it does, trans men are "men" and thus unable to be oppressed by these tactics. (If anything, this in part informs why i feel really resistant to the relatively new conceptualization of trans experience as "always was X" in this case, the "trans men always were men and always were male"; this overwrites ppl's ability to ID their own experiences just as much as "man trapped in woman's body". These frameworks, imo, are really for the benefit of cis ppl, tho i know they hold true for a number of trans ppl.)

    :VV blah blah blah, the short version that's less convoluted is probably "UGH I'VE SEEN THAT SHIT, it's fucked up that the space you need and want to rely on and be involved with has ppl of that element being butts at other ppl who need + rely on that space. It must feel kinda unsafe, but it's good to hear that the staff + yr therapist don't hold that opinion and hopefully this pers is a minority opinion."

    • Link

      fuck me i feel like such a pleb reading this but some of this stuff i have read about and agree with. but i'm doing that thing where i'm shirking away from talking about it because 'i don't know enough about it so i don't want to say the wrong thing and get yelled at' (thanks tumblr)

      but yeah. it does suck but as i mentioned above, i'd have one more semester to comfortably attend. it's already at the university, while i'm attending the community college, so i'm just there on the good graces that no one looks to hard at the membership, but things will get awkward probably if i keep attending while not being a student. ideally i'd like to find a more diverse group to attend with people closer to my age, since i can relate to trans experiences but when we actually start talking about things outside of that, it gets a bit awkward and there's not that connection.

      i guess i am glad, though, that it's taken this long for me to have seen and experienced this shit, and to at least have the safety of having it be online where i can experience my emotions away from other people rather than hearing it aloud in a room and suddenly shutting down or have to immediately leave to dispel my anger (i'm still learning how to deal with this emotion so if i don't go do SOMETHING with it in that moment, i will fester and rot until i either turn it against myself or completely blow my lid). if anything, i may talk to the owner of the women's center and see what she plans to do with the focus group and if she's thinking about hosting a support group (especially given how many trans people are below the poverty line???). i'd be happy to volunteer for that, though i think most of the groups are led by counseling staff.