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Off-Site FA Ranting! by NaniMoose

I know a lot of you here have left FurAffinity for good. I've never paid much attention to the personal drama on that site, and it's never directly affected me...

...until now. FA's recent brush with DDOS attacks made them buy a service called a CDN (Content Delivery Network), which hosts common large files (like the images) on a scalable Cloud-type service, so FA's servers don't have to do the brunt of the work pushing these files around. That's all good. But there are two problems with how FA uses this CDN that are problematic.

First is caching. The CDN acts kind of like your browser cache, but on a much larger scale. Each piece of data that goes over the web carries an expiration date. For things that could change at any time (the submission page with its comments, for example), this expiration date is usually set to "Now". The page doesn't ever get cached, and you see new content when you refresh. For things that don't change (like images), this expiration date can be weeks or months out. Your browser saves this data into its cache, and uses this locally saved version instead of loading a live version. FA has never quite grasped the implications of this concept. When they update an image (when a user uploads a new icon, or an artist uploads an edit to their artwork), FA just replaces the file and uses the exact same URL to point to it as it did before. Your browser doesn't realize there's new content for this file, since the cached content hasn't expired yet. This is why you always see FA users telling you to "Hit F5" to see these sorts of changes -- that manual refresh re-checks all content on the page, even if it hasn't expired. This wastes a LOT of bandwidth.

This effect is made worse by the CDN, because the CDN now also caches the old version, and hitting F5 doesn't cause the CDN to refresh. This is a big problem for people who want to upload large images. Your initial FA upload gets resized to a maximum of 1280 pixels in width or height. You can go back and change the submission file and replace it with the exact same file, and the full-resolution one will upload... but at this point, the old version is already cached in the CDN, and you have to wait about 12 hours for it to flush out.

This could all be avoided if FA changed the filename or even just changed the URL (like adding a "?version2" to the end) for each version uploaded -- or just let artists upload larger pictures to start with.

That was actually the more minor of the two problems. A newer, larger problem is image recompression.

At some point in the pipeline, some images are now being recompressed. They're taking the original JPG and re-saving it with lower compression. This does save some bandwidth... but the quality setting they use is super, SUPER low and turns crisp, colorful art into murky shit. Here's a magnified excerpt of one of my recent uploads:

http://nanimoose.furryhome.com/stuff/WhatTheShitFA.png

The odd thing is that there seems to be no rhyme or reason as to which files get this treatment. It doesn't seem to be based on filesize or image dimensions, as far as I can tell.

But, like the oversized-upload solution above, there is an obvious workaround. This JPG recompression only applies to JPG files. So, if an artist were to go to each affected image, hit "Change Submission File" and feed it a PNG version of the same image... well, that would circumvent not only the recompression issue (it's not a JPG), but also the caching issue (the filename is different).

And that's what I've done to the one picture that's been affected so far. I'll continue to do so for each reasonably-sized JPG image of mine they turn into a murky recompressed piece of shit. And if they deny this and make it impossible to distribute high-quality artwork, well, that'll be my cue to leave.

(And yeah, I'm posting this journal here and not on FA, since I'm not in the habit of poking hornet nests with sticks.)

Off-Site FA Ranting!

NaniMoose

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  • Link

    Honestly, poke the hornet's nest. I don't know that FA is really concerned with what people think about the site so long as it's still getting business, so I wonder that the word should be spread to stir the complacent and lazy.

    • Link

      I'd feel more strongly if they were actually "getting business". As it stands, yeah, they show ads and take donations, but I totally believe them when they say that the revenue from that doesn't come close to covering how much it costs to host such a high-profile site. They're essentially doing it for free, and getting shit on from all directions, so I can't blame them for getting a bit testy now and then.

      But still. It's an art site. An art site that can't deliver art at a reasonable quality is useless.

      • Link

        It's that, and also the really, really, really, repeated skeevy practices that FA gets up to.

        • Link

          In reality its not so much FA doing skeevy things, but more the people that work under Dragoneer that have done skeevy things or have been accused of such.

          Most cases of accusation have nothing but two sides yelling at each other meaning no-one really knows what actually happened because two large groups of people picked a side and haven't stopped yelling about how they're right and the other side is wrong since. In the end all the drama generally has nothing to do with most of the people going on about it and yet feel their feelings on a matter they know little to nothing about is justifiable for throwing a fit.

          Frankly right know I'm more shocked by NaniMoose posting a journal about FA in a negative light that isn't a direct attack on a member of staff on FA or at FA itself. Its the most shocking thing I've seen in 6 years in fact, and I've had to deal with some dramatic stuff...

          • Link

            Heh. Is it really that shocking? What I expect from an art site is really pretty simple: I post images to the site, the site delivers them unmangled to my watchers. When this can't be done, I have no reason to use the site. All other issues are secondary. This is why I had a negative reaction to Weasyl when it first launched in Beta, and all art was being recompressed and shrunk to fit into 800x600 or less.

            • Link

              to be fair, Weasyl is doing the same thing as it was before: the version of the image shown on the submission page is shrunk if the submission file exceeds a particular size (1024x3000 now; 800x600 before), but the original file is what you get if you click the image or click "download".

              but yes, the 800x600 max size was definitely too small.

              • Link

                Yeah. 800x600 bugged me because it was so small that text couldn't be read on some of the images I'd submitted. I'm fine with how Weasyl currently does it, since it is easy to get the full version, and it isn't using completely terrible compression settings when it does have to resize. FA looks to be using about 30% quality on the Photoshop scale! It's almost more noise than picture.

            • Link

              It is incredible shocking for two major reasons.

              1. it isn't the norm. Most FA journals make it sound like the poster won't be satisfied until they have Dragoneers head on a spike, and are generally one sided. they don't allow comments of criticism or the other side to reasonable state their case. in my personal experience, I've been blocked by someone for asking a question, and instead of getting an answer or some reasonable retort, they insulted me, accused me of being an associate of what they believed to be a scam artist and then blocked me, all before I could reply to their comment. That type of behavior is the norm, so its incredible shocking. Welcome but still shocking, and I've dealt with some really shocking incidents in the past few years.

              2. I don't know you personally. If I knew you on a personal level then I'd probably expect this from you, I'd know how reasonable a person you really are. As it stands you and I are complete strangers to one another. Sure I follow you but that's just for your art, getting to know you specifically isn't something I can do when following 1K+ artists, so unless we discover we're in the same country and can visit one another to try and get to know each other, accomplishing such a feat is unlikely to happen.

              • Link

                Oh. Well, since you don't know me, yeah, I can tell you that I'm a reasonable guy.

                And humble!

                HUMBLE AS FUCK.

          • Link

            Yes, but I use FA as a shorthand because Dragoneer keeps bringing these people under his wing and trying to defend him and his website.

            • Link

              Defending people's right not to have the past be the only thing anyone judges them by (an extreme example, we all pooped our pants as babies, but we aren't treated like we don't know how to use the restroom as adults) isn't the actual problem. its the blatant lying to try and get away with bad publicity. Zido said they'd been a secret admin for a year yet Dragoneer denied it. Such things are against the very idea of transparency which is what he's promised us, meaning we as users can't trust him.

              In my mind the biggest issue, is everyone takes it. If people made sure he didn't get away with everything they pulled on them then he'd either abandon FA or straighten things out.

              But then people aren't very fair when it comes to judgement. If FA makes the tiniest of mistakes it is never forgiven, even when the mistakes are questionable at best. Weasyl for example, made a huge publicity blunder right from the get go, yet people act like its never made any such mistake. If we're going to have people demand Dragoneer's head for employing someone shady (and truth is we all are, because whose to say we didn't do something "naughty" and got away with it?) then why did no one demand an employee be sacked for the publicity blunder on Weasyl's part? If people keep moving the goals then we'll just keep being taken advantage of.

              Heck even when the mistake was undone no-one actually takes the time to make their appreciation known to those that deserve it. Zido choose to step down, yet not one "thank you" message has been sent their way even though Zido put FA's reputation above his own ego, something we've all been begging for the staff to do for years. When a member of staff does that, they just get ignored.

              The reality is we keep rewarding bad behavior and either ignoring or punishing good behavior.

              • Link

                I've only heard rumors that this guy stepped down. Granted, I haven't gone looking for confirmation, but I still don't know whether or not he actually did.

                With regard to how FA is run, I'm open to not holding the past against FA in general and Dragoneer in particular. Having said that, there is a bunch of sketchy stuff that happens over and over and over. This sort of thing establishes a pattern. And the pattern is damaging to FA's reputation as a whole. Weasyl hasn't had the opportunity to build up much of a reputation to the furry community at large, but so far I've heard a bunch of good stuff about the staff and how the site is run. SF is also fairly well run. Haven't heard much of anything about IB's staff.

                With FA's reputation, it's pretty safe to say that the only reason the site is still going is because it's the biggest and everybody's reluctant to move because they're set up there. Sure, FA has defenders and they have their reasons for staying, but I don't think a lot of people would stay on the site if they didn't feel they had to.

                • Link

                  I'd say most of that sketchy stuff isn't really Dragoneers fault, and that usually he doens't have many other options. Like hiring bad staff...he can't afford to hire the good ones. 18K won't last long enough to make the site work any better and acting like it will is silly thinking.

                  SoFurry and Inkbunny haven't had a graphical update in years, they receive no hate. FA doens't get a graphical update it receives hate.

                  Look my main point is simply the users aren't being rational. They want the world when they haven't even got a country. Its overexpectation. In truth its like they've assumed that Dragoneer has as much power and as many resources as Google. He doens't. The best thing to do is yes punish FA when it or its staff do something wrong, yes certainly. Heck if they've broken any laws drag their sorry butts to court (unless its copyright, we've all broken that one). But if they do something good, like that bad staff member choosing to step down, after the public outcry, then reward them. Why isn't anyone going over to Starrykitty and thanking them for putting FA's public image above their own ego? Why are't we apologizing to Dragoneer about driving one of his coders away? Because everyone thinks they deserve special treatment. That FA should do everything they say it should. People need a reality check.

                  If FA does something bad, we should punish them. If FA does something good we should reward them. Its a simple idea and if everyone followed through with it then the staff would be motivated to improve things.

  • Link

    ok I'm not tech savy but i'm glad you pointed this out. i have noticed some older images being in what seemed to be lower resolution then i remembered them being but i thought it was just my imagination. my biggest issue with FA right now is that the site has had issues like crazy lately AFTER they had a massive fundraiser drive and raised a literal buttload of cash (something like 10 grand and the sight has been running worse then ever)

  • Link

    I didn't know about the second point. That's really interesting to know. I'll have to tell some of the artists/submitters I know about this.

  • Link

    I bet a nickel it is the CDN doing the compression and making JPEG's look like garbage. Actually yeah, here's the feature: http://blog.cloudflare.com/introducing-polish-automatic-image-optimizati/ I can't imagine it's saving all that much effort anyway if it is.

    Anyway, so yeah, definitely a good tip replacing those with PNG's for when it matters. Will keep that in mind, thanks!

    • Link

      It could be happening on FA's side... but that would've required them to make an actual change to their code, so I'm betting that's not the case.

  • Link

    Yet another issue to add to the ever-growing pile of known problems. God

  • Link

    I was wondering why it was so difficult trying to use the reload trick lately. It does it to png files as well if they're too large - maybe it would work to upload a dummy jpg, then reload png?

    • Link

      Yeah, I think that's the best bet.

  • Link

    Super good points to bring up!

    I actually stopped uploading jpegs when they first started to automatically resize images because I noticed some mucking of my art due to the compression.

    Thanks for sharing this information! :)

  • Link

    Well, I look forward to seeing more of your work here. ^o^

  • Link

    Hory Shet moosebro.

    The jpeg artifacting on that lower version is just... WOW. Jesus Peanut-butter-and-banana-sandwich Christ.

  • Link

    wow the image got ruined by fa. Like ive said before. FA needs an overhaul. Jebus thats bad

  • Link

    Huh, again I see it's just not me seeing things - noticed the thumbnails on recent uploads the past few days being lower quality, but now at least one pic of mine from back in May has had its quality degraded too, both the thumbnail and the full version: http://www.furaffinity.net/full/13526088/ (NSFW)

    Also noticed the Change Submission File option having seemingly stopped working after the previous downtime too, though 12 hours to replace the main file/full size pic when the thumbnails can (at the time) still be replaced immediately by Ctrl/F5'ing? That caused further issues too.

    I know FA has its numerous problems, but as Zapher just said too, right after a huge fundraiser and everything, now this happens, and it's not just a minor inconvenience this time round. Whatever the hell is going on with their management?

    (Also, you mind if I post a link to this on Twitter too? Cos I think this needs as much attention as it can get.)

    • Link

      Eh, sure, if you want to.

      The caching issue feels like an honest mistake, like they just didn't think about how a CDN would amplify their existing caching problems.

      The terribly recompressed JPGs, though, feel like a pretty direct fuck-you to anybody that cares about image quality.

      Another odd effect of the CDN is that things don't look the same to everybody anymore. Different parts of the Internet are covered by different nodes of the CDN, and sometimes there are different versions of a particular image cached at the different nodes. For example, I don't see any obvious artifacting on that picture you linked to.

      • Link

        Huh, looking at it now as well, looks like it's back to its standard quality for me too, where I swear it was at a lower quality before - or maybe i'm literally just seeing things at this point and confusing the lighting/glowing effects and such for artifacts, but i'm positive it was showing at a reduced quality just a few hours ago, with artifacts much like with the thumbnails at current.

        I mean, slightly good news I suppose if this is a temporary bug or if I was mistaken, but lately it seems like it's becoming much more a hassle to just know for certain how an image is going to turn out when it's uploaded to FA. :-/

      • Link

        Wait, just saw another example: screencapped it this time: http://i.imgur.com/MzcV74b.png Definitely not seeing things.

        • Link

          (Screencap also NSFW, sorry. x.x)

        • Link

          Yeah, there's an ooold submission I've found in my gallery that's also affected. Gonna keep my eye on it and see if this issue gets fixed or not.

  • Link

    It's nice to see someone ranting about FA, who is being reasonable.
    It is a service that is new to them, hopefully they will get it fixed soon. Personally the only problem I've noticed is pages loading a lot slower now, it's annoying but I can be patient..

  • Link

    Problem seem solve by use of glorious lossless Portable Network Graphics format comrade.

  • Link

    The jpeg problem seems to have mysteriously resolved itself. There was a window of maybe 24 hours or so where every jpeg was nothing but macroblocks, and then it went back to normal.

    • Link

      Oh that's good. I'm still keeping my eye on this one: http://www.furaffinity.net/view/5544595
      ...which still shows up with the extreme JPG chunkies. For me, at least. I'm hoping when my local CDN node refrehses, it'll fix itself.

      • Link

        That one is looking pretty ugly, yeah. Maybe re-upload it as a png?