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More food for thought........ by keirajo
So.........this is my thinking question this week: How do you feel about free bases being used to create adoptables that people are making money off of?
I'm seeing this A LOT lately. Even well-known popular artists are using that one base (I see it referred to as "the Waitress base", someone using the name "waitress" created it) to mass-produce adoptable characters and making money on it. I am talking artists who are well-known artists who CAN draw their own art and probably create their own bases are using this very popular base to sell things an make money off of it.
A portion of me feels uncomfortable to see the well-known artists use this base and charge $20-30 for the adoptable. I could maybe see charging LESS THAN $10 for such a thing--all this professional artist did is color it in a unique way, many are not even altering the base very much. I think if you are an artist who can draw these things in your own style and all, you're using this base for large profits...I think a portion of this fund should go to the creator of the base as "royalties" or something.
If you're charging a minimal amount, then fine...you're likely trying to help people who love adoptables get something nice at an affordable price. This is just my opinion, but a "free-to-use" base really shouldn't be abused like this, I think--even if credit is given to the maker of the base...they are making no profit on it while someone using it to sell adoptables is making a profit! hmmmmmmmm
Once again, only posting the journal at Weasyl because of drama that FA can encourage........
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I think you're on the right track...you're creating your own base and customizing your own adoptables for it! It's still your own art in the end that you're selling! I think you should go for it!!!
There are people using these free lineart bases, coloring them and selling them as adoptables...and I am not sure that that is what the creator of the lineart base intended them for, you know?
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Yeah I see what you mean. They are basically taking a blueprint and altering it slightly for cash profit, which is only justifiable if the artist intended it for such use, which is unlikely.
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I'm not a "trueblood furry" in the community, but as I understand it...many people who have created a lot of these lineart bases have intended for them to be used by people to create ref sheets. Especially in the cases of people who don't have the money or means to get a reference sheet for their character from an artist. I really like the thought behind that...to give people who may not be artists a chance to truly create the vision of their "fursona". Seeing people, especially talented artists who are more than capable of creating a base of their own, use these free bases and charge large sums of money for them as adoptables...when mostly all they've done is a color-pattern on the base. I never see much addition or extra to the original base itself. If I want to adopt a character from someone on the internet...I would be more likely to buy it if the whole of the art were done by the actual artist itself (regardless of their skill level). grins
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You mean like...using the exact same base (same pose) for every adoptable? I always thought that that's pretty lazy. If you're gonna sell adoptables, at least give them unique poses or something :/
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And in this case it is MORE than that...they are using a lineart base ANOTHER ARTIST created, simply coloring them and selling them--when the creator of the base made it free to use, but I don't think they intended other artists to sell things using their lineart. I think the lineart was for people to create ref-sheets without spending a fortune to get them from a professional artist.
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Oh, I've seen that a lot. Even when the original base creator explicitly says to not sell them, it happens anyways :/
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Yeah.......I don't know the rules the creator set forth on this base that's popular now, but for how much I'm seeing people use it and sell as adoptables--I really think they should get a percentage of the profits. All these artists are doing is coloring the thing...they spent no time on the pose or linework and should NOT sell these for more than $10! I've seen some of these people using the Waitress base and selling their colored piece for like $50!!!!
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Honestly it depends on what the artist of the base permits for me. If artists have no problem with people making money off of a free-to-use base, then I'd likely side-eye the people who were coloring it and selling it but not really do much about it. The only time it truly bothers me is if the artist explicitly states not to use the base for commercial use and they do it anyways, regardless of whether or not the base is free to use or you have to pay to use it. Above everything else people should always respect the artists' wishes of how they want their pieces to be used!
Personally I wouldn't want people using my lines / bases (not that I've made any) for profit unless I had a p2u system or a royalty system in place, but I know some artists wouldn't care either way ^^;
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It's a good point...and I'm sure some of these base-makers know that their bases are being used this way, too--whether they've said people could or not. I think part of my discomfort in this area comes from the fact that I've seen 4 artists I watch on FA who use the Waitress base and charge from $20-50 per adoptable...when all that's been done is that they've made very little alteration to the base, they've really only colored it. But these artists are also really GOOD artists on their own and capable of making their own bases (they have in the past) for adoptables. It makes me kind of shake my head and wonder why...if I wanted an adoptable from a "professional artist" like this, I'd really like it to be their own art for anything over $10, especially getting to the $20 mark and beyond!
I very much agree with you. I think the artists using the bases should respect the original creator's wishes on how to use it...or at least find a way to give the original creator a percentage, as if it were "royalties" or "licensing fees" paid on it.
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Yeah, I could definitely understand the reasoning behind frowning upon that. I haven't seen this work so I can't agree or disagree, but if it's a lineart that's just been colored I would hope that it's a pretty damn amazing design if it's fetching for that high a price. I can understand if they don't have the time to make their own bases (esp. if they're in school or working two jobs or something crazy like that!), I guess it would be a case by case basis for me.
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It's a decidedly female-looking base, a curvy one (though I've seen a few people alter it into hermaphrodite), I wouldn't be surprised if you'd seen it...besides the people using it as adoptables, many are using it in the expected way of creating a ref sheet for a character. Most colorings I've seen are pretty single color designs, very little fur patterning...maybe ?color-and-white But maybe the artist is depending on their name or artist status just to sell them for a quick buck or $30! lol
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I don't like it, if you're gonna sell base made adoptables either make or buy a base. :/
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I know that if I could buy adoptables...I would really only want to buy art from the artist themselves. It seems like a cheat, especially when well-known artists use these popular bases to create adoptables.
From a business standpoint, if you're trying to become a professional artist and make money selling your art...don't take a lazy route for quick cash. I may not be a great digital artist yet...but I find basic coloring to be rather easy............so coloring someone else's linework and selling it seems weird to me. hmmmm
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Actually I agree with you. I know I've collected up a few free bases (so I can color if I feel like just coloring or have something pre-drawn that I have to make minor edits to so I can make simpler art of my characters), but I feel it's wrong to up and make huge profit on something that was done for free for the masses to use. I remember Geekidog on FA made a base herself but put the rules as something like "If you use this base to make characters, make sure they are free adopts because I don't want people selling them when the buyer could just make their own for free with the same base." I think less than $10, as you suggest is at least more fair, but, if they didn't pay for the adopt base, $20-$30 is a ridiculous amount to pay for someone to just color a base let alone a flat color as well...
I know I even want to start selling adopts, but I think I want to make them of my own personally created species so someone is getting something different, not just a similar 'mass-produced' character with different patterns. While I'll make my own base and reuse it for ease, at least I'd have made it myself. I'd like to put out free-to-use line arts too, but, things like the adoptables on FA make me step back a bit and warn myself from making something that's usable as an adopt.
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Awwwww...thanks! hugs
I know it's hard for a creator of a base to probably police how their bases are being used. To me...I was probably more disappointed to see a couple of well-known artists who take commission work use this particular base and sell them (almost on a daily basis) as adoptables--when these artists are pretty capable of creating their own adoptables and bases.
As someone struggling to learn digital art myself, that's why I could see making one of these and charging a fair and minimal fee as an adoptable--for people who don't know/don't care/won't try to make one of their own using the base. To be perfectly honest...since I don't know how to use all my coloring tools yet, I can't possibly color a base with any skill level yet! laughs
I bet you can come up with some nice-looking adopts in the future! grin
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You're welcome~<3 hugs
I totally agree, it seems lazy. And I've seen the exact same things you're talking about from more than likely similar artists if not the same artists! I almost feel it's like, because they are popular and their name is wide-spread, they can just get away with doing what they want, and that's not right... ;n;
It took me a bit to get used to doing digital, I'm actually still getting used to drawing normally and it took me finding a Japanese art program to really get on track with digital tools I liked! @w@ I'm sure I have a few pointers to spare though, so feel free to ask questions if you're stuck on anything while drawing! ^^
Actually your journal motivated me to finally draw an adoptable base for a species I made awhile ago! >w< It should be uploaded to FA soon, but I may upload it here if there's no interest on FA! ;3
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It's slightly funny, because one of those artists I was thinking of just suddenly has turned around and begun putting out their own original adoptables now. I don't even think they're on Weasyl and they don't know me as anything more than a watcher on FA...so it's a little ironic that I brought this topic up and one of those people I was thinking of suddenly stops offering recolors of this base as adoptables! wry laugh
I have to catch up from all my submissions since last night...for some reason FA was not loading on my phone last night when I got off of work, or loading up today. So I hope I can get online over there and check out your adoptable!
I don't know if it's my arthritis, but I don't think I'll ever be able to do linework digitally--I might be stuck with sketch-style lines. Which look good and would be a unique style probably only to me. Linework and trying just frustrates me...but I do enjoy the sketching lines and all and I do enjoy coloring (even if it takes me longer, because I have to erase so much, since I can't figure out that loop tool.........)! grins
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I can agree with you on this 100%
however Waitress is selling those
but..i still feel like they should share some of the money they make for something she drew and they only colored..like a..collab commissiongood call on only posting it here.
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I know there are some people who are using the base and they didn't pay for them, too.....but, seeing how much some of these people are selling the adopts they make from it for--the designer of the base should get something for it!
Yeah...I think at Weasyl people are better at being thoughtful (or just ignoring things! lol)...I've been getting good talks out of people without it becoming an argument and people getting hurt feelings over things.
Everyone has their own thoughts on these things...and they should be free to talk about it without getting lynched by others for having a different opinion. I want to try and do a new art topic discussion every week with people. So I'm thinking of a new topic soon......
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YOU HAVE NEVER BEEN SO RIGHT KEIRA
HUFF.
When I felt down and out over that one journal i posted a few weeks ago
I got jumped on by some people. I wasn't trying to insult anyone
i just removed the journal because of the drama. just
uhgg-
The same thing happened with one of my friends over on FA...she had been asking a question about YCH advertising and it started an all-out brawl between some of her friends (even MY name came up between the people arguing)...and she noted me during people posting on it that she was crying because her friends were "yelling" at each other through comments on her journal--and she was only trying to ask a question and get information.
All I get told is "furries=drama", but sometimes I wish some furries would be a little less dramatic when it leads to hurting people. I think everyone should be able to express their own feelings and opinions...and people shouldn't "force" others to think exactly as they do. The whole point to being human is to be ourselves and think for ourselves. If being furry means having "one united opinion"...my view on furries goes right down the drain........ wry laugh
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WorloCoyote
I had an idea to create a complex creature base, and sell it for like $15 a piece to do custom versions of it myself, but I wouldn't want other artists to use the base. Actually, I wouldn't be selling the base itself, I would simply ask for $15 to create a whole new custom beast based on the base. How does that sound? Still considering it for the future.